Teacher Qi Zhijun | 2018-06-23 | Download | AI assisted translation
| 学人：那些人说，中道那个是。 | Student: Those people say that the Middle Way is the right one. |
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| 齐老师：把中道扔到垃圾桶里。 | Teacher Qi: Throw the Middle Way into the garbage can. |
| 学人：中道也没有。 | Student: There is no Middle Way either. |
| 齐老师：中道是一边，空假两边是一边，这还是两边。这个教下讲彻也能讲到这儿，这叫"空假不立中亦无"。要是禅，不这么说话。 | Teacher Qi: The Middle Way is one side; emptiness and provisional existence are the other side. That is still two sides. Even the doctrinal schools, when they explain it thoroughly, can reach this point. This is called, “Neither emptiness nor provisional existence is established; the middle, too, is absent.” Chan does not speak this way. |
| 学人：菩提和佛性，能不能划等号？ | Student: Can bodhi and Buddha-nature be equated? |
| 齐老师：论相等，可以写一本书；论不等，也能写一本书。都能引到好处，但总归是戏论。 | Teacher Qi: You could write a whole book arguing that they are equal; you could also write a whole book arguing that they are unequal. Either way, you can cite supporting arguments, but in the end it is all conceptual elaboration. |
| 学人：戏论，还是戏论。 | Student: Conceptual elaboration—still conceptual elaboration. |
| 齐老师：全都是戏论。其实也可能在这说的过程中，突然磕着撞着，"噢--"！这么回事！把说的话忘了，把这个真意领悟了，这戏论就站不住脚了。戏论站不住脚了，所谓的正论也站不住脚了。 | Teacher Qi: It is all conceptual elaboration. Yet perhaps, in the course of discussing it here, you may suddenly stumble upon something: “Oh—so that is how it is!” You forget the words that have been spoken and realize their true meaning. Then conceptual elaboration can no longer stand. Once conceptual elaboration cannot stand, so-called correct discourse cannot stand either. |
| 学人：像《圆觉经》说的那个"以幻修幻"…… | Student: Like what the Sūtra of Perfect Enlightenment says about “using illusion to cultivate illusion”... |
| 齐老师：不是以幻修幻吗？这样说吧，心中心法是不是幻？你们打七是不是幻？你要认为不是幻，那你错了。 | Teacher Qi: Is it not using illusion to cultivate illusion? Let me put it this way: is the Heart-of-Heart Dharma an illusion or not? Is your seven-day retreat an illusion or not? If you think it is not an illusion, you are mistaken. |
| 学人：我的意思是，这样会不会偏空？ | Student: What I mean is, would that not become biased emptiness? |
| 齐老师：你哪空了？ | Teacher Qi: Where is your emptiness? |
| 学人：以幻修幻，老认为这个世界什么都是假的。 | Student: Using illusion to cultivate illusion—you keep thinking that everything in this world is false. |
| 齐老师：当然什么都是假的。 | Teacher Qi: Of course everything is false. |
| 学人：就好像没有那个妙用。 | Student: Then it seems as though there is no wondrous functioning. |
| 齐老师：妙用不是假的吗？你认为妙用是真的呀，哎呀，你可弄错了，当然是假的了！然后反过头来："从来真是妄，而今妄皆真。但复本时性，更无一法新！" | Teacher Qi: Is wondrous functioning not false as well? Do you think wondrous functioning is real? Ah, then you have it wrong. Of course it is false! Then, turning it around: “What was always taken as real is delusive; now all delusion is true. But when one returns to the original nature, not a single dharma is new!” |
| 你啥时候立真，我啥时候跟你说都是假。你说你落空，我说你着有，你那儿有个"空"。有个空也不对，那是着有了，那不是落空了。有一个空的理论在，那是个妄想，是戏论。 | Whenever you posit something as real, I will tell you that it is all false. When you say that you have fallen into emptiness, I say that you are attached to existence, for you have an “emptiness” there. Having an emptiness is also incorrect; that is attachment to existence, not falling into emptiness. If there is a theory of emptiness, it is a deluded thought; it is conceptual elaboration. |
| 学人：要是不戏论，就没东西说了。 | Student: If it is not conceptual elaboration, then there is nothing to say. |
| 齐老师：要是不戏论，就可以敞开说了，可以说的天花乱坠、地涌金莲。那就可以这样说了：说了就是没说！"佛四十九年未说一字"，四十九年没说一字吗？他说没说一字！ | Teacher Qi: If it is not conceptual elaboration, then one can speak freely—one can speak so brilliantly that flowers rain from heaven and golden lotuses spring from the earth. Then one can say this: speaking is not speaking! “For forty-nine years, the Buddha did not utter a single word.” Did he not utter a single word for forty-nine years? He said that he uttered not a single word! |
| 学人：它是一体的。 | Student: They are one. |
| 齐老师：《心经》先说的是："色不异空，空不异色"，色跟空相同，空跟色相同。到这儿意犹未尽，为什么呢，你要怀疑成这是俩东西、它俩一样咋办啊？补了一句："色即是空，空即是色"。它并不是俩东西啊。光读前半句，好像它是俩东西，不是那回事，那是一回事。 | Teacher Qi: The Heart Sūtra first says, “Form is not different from emptiness; emptiness is not different from form.” Form and emptiness are the same; emptiness and form are the same. But this still does not fully express the point. Why? You might suspect that they are two things that merely happen to be alike. So it adds: “Form is emptiness; emptiness is form.” They are not two things. If you read only the first half, it seems as though they are two things, but that is not so—they are one thing. |
| 学人：真空妙有是一回事。 | Student: True emptiness and wondrous presence are one thing. |
| 齐老师：其实，真空就是妙有，妙有就是真空。根本不是在真空外头有个妙有，妙有外头有个真空，根本不是那回事。 | Teacher Qi: In fact, true emptiness is wondrous presence, and wondrous presence is true emptiness. It is not at all that there is wondrous presence outside true emptiness, or true emptiness outside wondrous presence. It is not like that at all. |
| 学人：如果"保"的话，怎么下手比较好？ | Student: If one is to safeguard it, what is the best way to begin? |
| 齐老师：保任什么？我打个比方吧："哦，我的孩子怎么养？""那我先看看你的孩子。" | Teacher Qi: Safeguard what? Let me give an example: “Oh, how should I raise my child?” “First let me have a look at your child.” |
| 学人：保的就是老人讲的"一念不生了了灵知"。 | Student: What is to be safeguarded is what the old master called, “When not a single thought arises, there is clear, numinous knowing.” |
| 齐老师：是理论上知道了，还是真的体验到了？ | Teacher Qi: Do you merely understand this in theory, or have you truly experienced it? |
| 学人：体验到了。 | Student: I have experienced it. |
| 齐老师：体验到了，当然是保任它。你所谓你体验到的这个灵知，无梦无想时，它在不在？ | Teacher Qi: If you have experienced it, then of course you should safeguard it. This numinous knowing that you say you have experienced—is it present when there are no dreams and no thoughts? |
| 学人：一直在。 | Student: It is always present. |
| 齐老师：你说说它在的证据？你证明了它在，这叫踏实了。要不然，一直在这疑着。 | Teacher Qi: Tell me the evidence that it is present. Once you have proved that it is present, then you are on firm ground. Otherwise, you will keep doubting. |
| 你不找证据，我给你找个证据吧。你叫什么名字？"XXX"。你跑到石头那儿，"XXX ，XXX ，起来，起来。"那个石头会不会起来？不会吧。 | If you do not look for evidence, I will find some for you. What is your name? “XXX.” Go up to a stone and say, “XXX, XXX, get up, get up.” Will that stone get up? It will not, will it? |
| 你正睡着了，无梦也无想，"XXX，起来"，拍你一下，你起来了吧。它怎么会不在呢？它不是断灭啊。 | When you are asleep, with neither dreams nor thoughts, someone says, “XXX, get up,” and gives you a pat—you get up, do you not? How could it not be present? It is not annihilated. |
| 先从这个角度认识，我这也是方便说，有相的色身不是我，那个才是我，常乐我净的我、法身的我。还轮回吗？那个我从来就不存在轮回，它就没变过。你要想脱轮回苦海，那个我它本来不在苦海里，所以叫"本来是佛"。那是你修来的吗？根本不是，本来是佛。 | Begin by understanding it from this angle. What I am saying is also an expedient expression: this material body of form is not me; that is me—the self of permanence, bliss, self, and purity; the self of the dharmakāya. Does it still undergo rebirth? That self has never existed in saṃsāra; it has never changed. If you want to escape the bitter ocean of saṃsāra, that self was never in the bitter ocean to begin with. That is why it is said, “Originally, one is a Buddha.” Did you cultivate it into being? Certainly not. Originally, you are a Buddha. |
| 学人：老是着相。 | Student: I am always attached to appearances. |
| 齐老师：习惯了。一着相，就拉回来，这就叫保。 | Teacher Qi: It has become a habit. Whenever you become attached to appearances, pull yourself back. That is called safeguarding. |
| 没法直指吗？这就是直指啊。但管用吗？所以就费费劲吧，别怕吃苦，打打座啊，拿这个辛苦换来的，他还脚跟点地，踏实些。 | Is there no way to point directly? This is direct pointing. But is it effective? So put forth some effort. Do not be afraid of hardship. Sit in meditation, and what you gain through that hard work will give you firmer footing. |
| 学人：老师，如果是没证到佛性的话，到凡圣同居土去啊？ | Student: Teacher, if one has not realized Buddha-nature, does one go to the Land of the Common Residence of Ordinary Beings and Sages? |
| 齐老师：我问你现在在哪里？你不在释迦牟尼佛的凡圣同居土里吗？ | Teacher Qi: Let me ask you: where are you now? Are you not in Śākyamuni Buddha’s Land of the Common Residence of Ordinary Beings and Sages? |
| 学人：老师，心中心法搞不搞闭关哪？ | Student: Teacher, does the Heart-of-Heart Dharma include undertaking solitary retreat? |
| 齐老师：闭关、打七本是好事，我不反对，但我为什么不加鼓励呢？闭关和打七这两样事儿，现在是有这种风气呀，那都成了镀金了啊！ | Teacher Qi: Solitary retreat and seven-day retreats are originally good things. I do not oppose them, but why do I not especially encourage them? Nowadays there is such a trend around solitary retreats and seven-day retreats—they have all become a way of gilding oneself! |
| 学人：咱闭关搞实的嘛。 | Student: But when we undertake solitary retreat, we do it sincerely. |
| 齐老师：搞实的，就闭心关吧。心真实，一切唯有心真实。闭心关，也包括你找个地方闭，也包括你不找个地方也能闭。 | Teacher Qi: If you do it sincerely, undertake a mind retreat. The mind is real; only the mind is real. A mind retreat includes finding a place to go into retreat, but it also includes being able to remain in retreat without finding such a place. |
| 我的意思是说，闭关你就悄悄去闭吧！满世界嚷的，一般就是攫取名利的。并不是说恐怕产生弊端，现在已经产生弊端了，都成了镀金了。 | What I mean is, if you undertake solitary retreat, just go quietly and do it. Those who proclaim it everywhere are generally seeking fame and profit. It is not that I fear abuses might arise; abuses have already arisen. It has all become a way of gilding oneself. |
| 学人：齐老师，在火车上汽车上要打坐，怎么办？ | Student: Teacher Qi, what should one do if one wants to meditate on a train or bus? |
| 齐老师：那也可以，我就那样打坐过，实际上心中心法适合忙人修， 不是不适合。但你不能找理由去间断，一间断就麻烦了。据我的经验，大约完成千座的不到百分之十，这都是灌过顶的。不容易，坚持一千座的人比例不大。也有比我更难的，人家都能坚持的也有，但是这种比例不大，有这样的人。 | Teacher Qi: That is possible too. I have meditated that way myself. In fact, the Heart-of-Heart Dharma is suitable for busy people to practice; it is not unsuitable. But you cannot use that as an excuse to interrupt your practice. Once you interrupt it, trouble begins. In my experience, fewer than 10 percent complete a thousand sessions, even among those who have received empowerment. It is not easy; the proportion of people who persist through a thousand sessions is not large. Some have circumstances more difficult than mine, and some of them can still persist, but they are not many. |
| 学人：其实到究竟，因果也是空的，是吧？ | Student: Ultimately, cause and effect are empty too, are they not? |
| 齐老师：那是以后的话。"因果是空的"这个话，转了好几个圈了。咱少转几个圈，我给你这样说： | Teacher Qi: That is something to speak of later. The statement “cause and effect are empty” has gone around several turns. Let us make fewer turns. Let me explain it to you this way: |
| 因果的性质是什么？--因果的性质是空。 | What is the nature of cause and effect?—The nature of cause and effect is emptiness. |
| 世间大苦海的规律是因果，这个苦海要不要离开？--是要离开的。 | The law governing this great bitter ocean of the world is cause and effect. Must this bitter ocean be left behind?—It must. |
| 怎么离开？--要修出世间法，出世间因果。 | How does one leave it behind?—One must cultivate supramundane dharmas, supramundane cause and effect. |
| 出世间法能不能灭掉这个大苦海？--能。 | Can supramundane dharmas extinguish this great bitter ocean?—They can. |
| 为什么能？--因为它本来就是空的，不是你修行把它灭掉的。要是说它本来不空，你是灭不掉它的。是这么说它本来是空的。 | Why can they?—Because it is originally empty; it is not that your cultivation extinguishes it. If it were not originally empty, you could not extinguish it. This is the sense in which it is originally empty. |
| 你要直接说这一句，就把你绕糊涂了，你要弄清楚了，这个条理非常清晰呀!我跟你用经答一答吧。《金刚经》云："往昔罪业则为消灭，当得阿耨多罗三藐三菩提。" 落不落因果？ | If you state that single sentence directly, it will leave you confused. Once you understand it, the logic is very clear! Let me answer you with a sūtra. The Diamond Sūtra says: “Past karmic offenses will thereby be extinguished, and one will attain anuttara-samyak-saṃbodhi.” Does this fall within cause and effect or not? |
| 学人：不落。 | Student: It does not. |
| 齐老师：对啊，落因果还"则为消灭"吗？应该去受罪的。 | Teacher Qi: Right. If it fell within cause and effect, could it “thereby be extinguished”? One ought to undergo the retribution. |
| 因果论一过头，有人说佛也在因果了，麻烦了。达摩祖师《血脉论》说："佛不持戒，佛不犯戒，佛无持犯，佛无因果。"甭说佛了，阿罗汉他都可以"不受后有"！ | Once theories of cause and effect go too far, some people say that even a Buddha is subject to cause and effect. That is troublesome. Patriarch Bodhidharma’s Treatise on the Bloodline says: “A Buddha does not uphold precepts; a Buddha does not violate precepts. A Buddha has neither upholding nor violating; a Buddha has no cause and effect.” Not to mention a Buddha—even an arhat can “not undergo further existence”! |
| 学人：老师，我打坐时突然一个喷嚏，我觉得好像有两个我，被惊醒的那个我，是不是灵知啊？ | Student: Teacher, while I was meditating, I suddenly sneezed. I felt as though there were two selves. Is the self that was startled awake numinous knowing? |
| 齐老师：你要不这么说，它是，你这么一说就不是了。 | Teacher Qi: If you do not say it this way, it is so; once you say it this way, it no longer is. |
| 学人：哈哈哈哈。 | Student: Hahahaha. |
| 齐老师：只能用，不能卖。一卖弄就走样，它就不是了。 | Teacher Qi: It can only be used, not flaunted. Once you show it off, it becomes distorted; it is no longer it. |
| 学人：我把那个打喷嚏的那个我称作假我，这个惊醒的我就叫真我。 | Student: I call the self that sneezes the false self, and this self that is suddenly awakened the true self. |
| 齐老师：都是假我！ | Teacher Qi: They are all false selves! |
| 学人：都是假我？ | Student: They are all false selves? |
| 齐老师：甚至可以有好多好多我。佛菩萨的我更多，化身千百亿。 | Teacher Qi: There can even be many, many selves. Buddhas and bodhisattvas have still more selves, manifesting countless transformation bodies. |
| 学人：这个我跟明心见性有什么关系吗？ | Student: What does this self have to do with realizing the mind and seeing one’s true nature? |
| 齐老师：这个时候就没有明心见性那个概念。要是往上一靠，就把明心见性给污染了。明心见性是回过头来说的。 | Teacher Qi: At this point, there is no concept of realizing the mind and seeing one’s true nature. If you try to attach it to that, you contaminate realizing the mind and seeing one’s true nature. It is something spoken of only in retrospect. |
| 根本就没有是它的余地！那才是真的。是什么呀？是佛性？佛性是什么干屎橛！到这才是真佛性。开悟见性？笑话！开什么悟啊，啥时候迷过啊，从来都没迷过！这是真开悟了。还有什么灵知？灵知你赶都赶不走，它不常在嘛？！还用你开发它一回啊？！这是真灵知。 | There is fundamentally no room even to say that it is. Only then is it real. What is it? Buddha-nature? What kind of dried shit-stick is Buddha-nature! Only here is there true Buddha-nature. Awakening and seeing one’s true nature? What a joke! What awakening is there? When were you ever deluded? You have never been deluded! This is true awakening. And what spiritual knowing is there? You could not drive spiritual knowing away even if you tried—it is always present, isn’t it? Why would you need to develop it all over again? This is true spiritual knowing. |
| 哦，这时候有，过一会儿没有了，那是假的！那都不是真的，哪会真的啊！啥时候离开过你啊？从来都没离开过你！ | Oh, if it is there at one moment and gone the next, that is false! None of that is real—how could it be real? When has it ever left you? It has never left you! |
| 学人：老师，庞居士他的闺女说是"百草头上西来意"，为什么她说百草是西来意？ | Student: Teacher, Layman Pang’s daughter said, “The meaning of the Patriarch’s coming from the West is atop the hundred grasses.” Why did she say that the hundred grasses are the meaning of his coming from the West? |
| 齐老师：百草头上西来意，这不是庞灵照讲的，是庞婆讲的。庞居士立论，庞婆给推翻，他们的女儿推翻他俩。 | Teacher Qi: “The meaning of the Patriarch’s coming from the West is atop the hundred grasses”—that was not said by Pang Lingzhao, but by Madam Pang. Layman Pang put forward a proposition, Madam Pang overturned it, and their daughter overturned them both. |
| 学人：哎，是是。 | Student: Ah, yes, yes. |
| 齐老师：要是没有庞居士一开始那一句，庞婆说这个也不见得对；有了庞居士那偈子，庞婆这句正恰如其分。如果没他俩那偈子在先，庞灵照那个她也立不起来。有庞居士、庞婆他俩刚说过，庞灵照表达的正好是他俩的意思。 | Teacher Qi: If Layman Pang had not first made that statement, what Madam Pang said would not necessarily have been right. But given Layman Pang’s verse, Madam Pang’s statement was precisely fitting. If their two verses had not come first, Pang Lingzhao’s statement could not have stood either. Since Layman Pang and Madam Pang had just spoken, what Pang Lingzhao expressed was exactly what they meant. |
| 看着像是反对的，其实表达的正好是他俩的意思。这就是用不同的语言说共同的东西，这是真意，叫意在言外，真意就在你的语言外头。 | It appears to be opposition, but in fact it expresses exactly what they meant. This is using different language to say the same thing. That is the true meaning: the meaning lies beyond words; the true meaning is outside your language. |
| 还有一个用语不同、意境相同的："如来禅"和"祖师禅"。永嘉禅师的《证道歌》："顿觉了，如来禅，六度万行体中圆，梦里明明有六趣，觉后空空无大千。 | There is another case in which the wording differs but the state conveyed is the same: “Tathāgata Chan” and “Patriarch Chan.” Chan Master Yongjia’s Song of Enlightenment says: “Suddenly awakened to Tathāgata Chan, the six perfections and myriad practices are complete within one’s essential nature. In dreams, the six destinies appear distinctly; upon awakening, the great thousandfold world is utterly empty.” |
| "他那个境界啊，跟后来说的"如来禅许你会，祖师禅你没梦见"，实际同一个意境。但是为什么又弄了个祖师禅出来呢？因为如来禅被污染了，把那些高下凡圣塞进去了，不能凡圣一如了，那就不用了。祖师的话是凡圣一如的境界，所以我就说：祖师禅你不能会。 | That state is actually the same as that later expressed in the saying, “You may understand Tathāgata Chan, but you have not even dreamed of Patriarch Chan.” But why was Patriarch Chan introduced? Because Tathāgata Chan became contaminated: distinctions of high and low, ordinary and sage, were stuffed into it, and it could no longer be the same for ordinary beings and sages. The words of the patriarchs express the state in which ordinary beings and sages are alike, so I say: you cannot understand Patriarch Chan. |
| 所以明心见性、开悟啊，大概年头一多可能慢慢就不能用了，再换一个词。证不到平常心了啊！弄到有高下、有凡有圣了啊。不离开建立或诽谤，跟见性就不相应。 | Thus, terms such as realizing the mind and seeing one’s true nature, or awakening, may gradually become unusable after many years; then another term must be used. One can no longer realize ordinary mind! It gets turned into something with high and low, ordinary and sage. If one does not depart from establishing and denigrating, one is not in accord with seeing one’s true nature. |
| 学人：《永嘉证道歌》里面有一句"幻化空身即法身"，这个是不是明心见性？ | Student: There is a line in Yongjia’s Song of Enlightenment: “This illusory, empty body is itself the dharmakāya.” Is this realizing the mind and seeing one’s true nature? |
| 齐老师：他说"无明实性即佛性，幻化空身即法身"，这是证道了啊。"不除妄想不求真"，那是在"除了妄想见真如"那个基础上说的话。就像《心经》的"无苦集灭道"，是在你通达了苦集灭道的道理之后说的话。 | Teacher Qi: He says, “The true nature of ignorance is itself Buddha-nature; this illusory, empty body is itself the dharmakāya.” That is realization of the Way. “Do not eliminate deluded thoughts or seek the true”—this is said on the basis of having first “eliminated deluded thoughts and seen suchness.” It is like the Heart Sūtra’s “no suffering, origination, cessation, or path”: it is said after you have thoroughly understood the principles of suffering, origination, cessation, and the path. |
| 学人：老师，我在上座的时候，有时候心里就觉得那种空荡荡的感觉。那个时候…… | Student: Teacher, while I am sitting in meditation, sometimes I feel a kind of emptiness within. At such times... |
| 齐老师："不作圣心，名善境界。若作圣解，即受群邪。" | Teacher Qi: “If you do not make a holy interpretation, it is called a good state. If you interpret it as holiness, you will fall prey to every kind of demon.” |
| 学人：我那时候用持咒啥的？ | Student: At such times, should I use mantra recitation or something? |
| 齐老师：你就别理它了！为什么不理它？因为它好啊！好的我都不理，坏的更不用说了！要是这样，它不是解脱道吗？你要是光理好的，不愿要坏的，还在轮回里呢。 | Teacher Qi: Just leave it alone! Why leave it alone? Because it is good! I do not attend even to what is good, much less to what is bad! If you do this, is that not the path of liberation? If you attend only to what is good and do not want what is bad, you are still within saṃsāra. |
| 学人：但有时候，好像拧不过它那个劲儿。 | Student: But sometimes it seems that I cannot overcome that force. |
| 齐老师：这就是习气呀，除习气呀。这你就知道除习气除的什么了。所以在这儿说，"不除妄想不求真"。你的习气是除妄想求真如啊。不除妄想不求真！看看除了没有？实际一开始的时候，你就是除妄想求真如，也没多大错，方便道嘛。 | Teacher Qi: That is habitual tendency—eliminating habitual tendencies. Then you will know what habitual tendency is being eliminated. This is why it is said here, “Do not eliminate deluded thoughts or seek the true.” Your habitual tendency is to eliminate deluded thoughts and seek suchness. Do not eliminate deluded thoughts or seek the true! See whether anything has actually been eliminated. In fact, at the beginning, even if you eliminate deluded thoughts and seek suchness, it is not much of an error; it is an expedient path. |
| 学人：那除习气种子，是主要任务了啊？ | Student: Then eliminating the seeds of habitual tendencies is the main task? |
| 齐老师：那你看除的什么习气啊。你总是要建立和诽谤嘛，总是要两边对立嘛，把这个习气除了！说一个"不除妄想不求真"多好用啊。在这儿说它，这个话就很好。 | Teacher Qi: Look at what habitual tendency you are eliminating. You always want to establish and denigrate; you always want to set the two sides in opposition. Eliminate that habitual tendency! How useful it is to say, “Do not eliminate deluded thoughts or seek the true.” In this context, these words are very apt. |
| 《楞伽经》里有这个意思：菩萨离开二边，建立及诽谤，是名菩萨入欢喜地。还有佛有众生，还在这儿、那儿，离不开两边，那根本就不到欢喜地。 | The Laṅkāvatāra Sūtra has this meaning: when a bodhisattva departs from the two extremes of establishing and denigrating, this is called the bodhisattva’s entering the Ground of Joy. If there are still Buddhas and sentient beings, still this and that, and one cannot leave the two sides, then one has not reached even the Ground of Joy. |
| 总是在"我开悟了、我没开悟"里转，或者象你说"我没开悟"，我听着像"我开悟了"是一个意思。啥？为什么会是一个意思？因为这都是没离开两边，它不是同一个意思吗？！所以，真开悟的人，他不会说他开悟了，也不会说他没开悟。离开这两边，那才能相信。 | If you are always revolving around “I am awakened” and “I am not awakened”—or, as you say, “I am not awakened,” which to my ear sounds like “I am awakened”—they mean the same thing. What? Why do they mean the same thing? Because neither has departed from the two sides; are they not the same thing? Therefore, someone truly awakened will not say that they are awakened, nor will they say that they are not awakened. Only when one has left these two sides can one be believed. |
| 家庭有人，你想家庭平安；家庭没有人，你想建立家庭；看见学佛了，你就想成佛；说个开悟，你就想开悟……开悟证道要是在这种范围、这个思维里解决问题，开悟不是妄想吗？ | If there are people in your family, you wish for family peace; if there is no one in your family, you want to establish a family. When you see Buddhist practice, you want to become a Buddha; when awakening is mentioned, you want to awaken... If awakening and realizing the Way are to be resolved within this scope, within this mode of thought, is awakening not merely deluded thinking? |
| 学人：是。 | Student: Yes. |
| 齐老师：这时候要是不求开悟，刚好成为真开悟的了。哦，家庭不顺了、没发财……那是业障吗？那是业力，你在因果里，那不叫业障。业障是障你成道、障你解脱，这叫业障。 | Teacher Qi: At this point, if you do not seek awakening, you thereby become truly awakened. Oh, if your family is not going well or you have not become wealthy—is that karmic obstacle? That is karmic force. You are within cause and effect; that is not called karmic obstacle. Karmic obstacles obstruct your realization of the Way and obstruct liberation; that is what is called karmic obstacle. |
| 哪障呀？心障！离心无法，心障！因为你心里对于佛教的成就，也按求世间法那个规律去求了，用那种"建立"的方式。其实这要舍！舍掉你那个有所求的心，这才行。哦，什么也得不到了，你就得到了，这就叫"得了个无所得"。得了个无所得，这才是真与道相应。 | What obstructs you? Mental obstruction! Apart from mind there is no dharma—mental obstruction! Because in your mind, you seek Buddhist attainment according to the same pattern by which you seek worldly dharmas, using that mode of “establishing.” In fact, this must be relinquished! Let go of that seeking mind; only then will it do. Oh, when you can obtain nothing at all, you have obtained it. This is called “obtaining non-attainment.” Obtaining non-attainment is what truly accords with the Way. |
| 学人：学佛，是为了成佛才去修行，这不成了有为而修行？ | Student: If one studies Buddhism and cultivates practice in order to become a Buddha, does that not make one’s practice conditioned? |
| 齐老师：要假如刚入佛门的，当然了，你还是让他诽谤世间法，建立佛法，要不然的话他没法进去呢。到最后，你还弄这，这不行了，没法进步了呀，思想还是那样能行吗？现在我们不是在打七嘛，有人管打七的地方叫做"选佛场"。 | Teacher Qi: If someone has just entered the Buddhist gate, then of course you should still have them denigrate worldly dharmas and establish the Buddha-Dharma; otherwise, they cannot enter. But in the end, if you are still doing this, it will not work—you can make no further progress. Can your thinking remain like that? We are now holding a seven-day retreat, are we not? Some people call the place where a seven-day retreat is held an “election ground for Buddhas.” |
| 学人：老师，有一句话就是善和恶。不管你做了什么善事，都不能有所求。 | Student: Teacher, there is this matter of good and evil. No matter what good deed one does, one must not seek anything. |
| 齐老师：咱从这个话题说起啊，"什么是佛教？"。 | Teacher Qi: Let us begin with this topic: “What is Buddhism?” |
| 有一个简洁的答案叫做"诸恶莫做，众善奉行，自净其意，是诸佛教。""是诸佛教"，那就是十方三世诸佛成佛都是这么教化的。 | There is a concise answer: “Do no evil, practice all good, and purify one’s own mind—this is the teaching of all Buddhas.” “The teaching of all Buddhas” means that the Buddhas of the ten directions and three periods of time all teach in this way after attaining Buddhahood. |
| "诸恶莫做，众善奉行，自净其意"三个意思，你要说简单的话，"诸恶莫做"是人道，"众善奉行"算天道，"自净其意"才是解脱道。 | The three meanings of “Do no evil, practice all good, and purify one’s own mind” may be put simply: “Do no evil” is the human path; “practice all good” may be counted as the heavenly path; and “purify one’s own mind” alone is the path of liberation. |
| 湛愚老人写书写到最后，《心灯录》最后这么落了一笔，就是"诸恶莫做，众善奉行"。哎，"自净其意"哪去了？你看糊涂不糊涂？ | Elder Zhanyu, at the very end of his book Records of the Mind-Lamp, concluded with “Do no evil, practice all good.” Well then, where did “purify one’s own mind” go? Do you see how confused that is? |
| 学人：糊涂。 | Student: Confused. |
| 齐老师：所以，元音老人说这本书不是不能读，读它要有"鹅王择乳"的手段。这书里头有精华，不是没有，但是也有毛病。 | Teacher Qi: Therefore, Master Yuanyin said that it is not that this book cannot be read, but that one must read it with the discernment of a goose king separating milk from water. There is essential material in the book—it is not absent—but there are also flaws. |
| 学人：齐老师，您给我们讲讲"狗子无佛性"。 | Student: Teacher Qi, please explain “a dog has no Buddha-nature” for us. |
| 齐老师：有人叫我讲过，我说："不对，不对。狗有佛性，你没佛性！"别想建立个啥理论！把你那个理论扫掉了正好！ | Teacher Qi: Someone once asked me to explain it, and I said, “No, no. Dogs have Buddha-nature; you do not!” Do not try to construct some theory! It is best to sweep away that theory of yours! |
| 学人：齐老师，自性光明吧，那个光明…… | Student: Teacher Qi, intrinsic nature is luminous, and that luminosity... |
| 齐老师：心光啊，哎呀，我心里亮堂堂的！就是那一种。你说像是灯光这样的光，不是没有，有，你别认这个啊，神神鬼鬼都会玩这一种啊。 | Teacher Qi: Intrinsic luminosity of mind—ah, the mind is bright and clear within! That is what it is. It is not that there is no light resembling lamplight; there is. But do not mistake that for it. All sorts of spirits and ghosts can play with that sort of thing. |
| 学人：有光影的那种光…… | Student: The kind of light that has images and shadows... |
| 齐老师：也可能会伴随着有，但是你别错认了。 | Teacher Qi: It may possibly accompany it, but do not mistake it for the real thing. |
| 学人：心光，是不是一般比普通光要强？ | Student: Is intrinsic luminosity of mind generally stronger than ordinary light? |
| 齐老师：佛经里对心光的描述是"过百千日"，就是超过百千个太阳的光明。 | Teacher Qi: The Buddhist scriptures describe intrinsic luminosity of mind as “surpassing hundreds of thousands of suns”—that is, exceeding the radiance of hundreds of thousands of suns. |
| 学人：但是它不亮，不亮。 | Student: But it is not bright—not bright. |
| 齐老师：它超过百千个太阳，它必定是不是那样个亮法，不是象太阳那么亮法。心光就是心里亮堂堂的。 | Teacher Qi: If it surpasses hundreds of thousands of suns, it certainly is not bright in that way; it is not bright in the way the sun is. Intrinsic luminosity of mind is simply the mind’s inner brightness and clarity. |
| 学人：师父，打坐出现不舒服了，疼啊，这个观照有时候去不掉。 | Student: Master, when discomfort and pain arise during meditation, sometimes I cannot get rid of it through contemplation. |
| 齐老师：是的，是去不掉。要先确诊一下，是不是器质性的病变。如果不是，别管它。这儿疼了那痒了，就是不修行的人也常有，他们都不在乎，我们在乎了，比他更执著啊？这有个前提，就是说没有器质性的病变。 | Teacher Qi: Yes, you cannot get rid of it. First, you need a diagnosis to determine whether there is an organic illness. If not, do not concern yourself with it. This place hurts, that place itches—even people who do not practice encounter such things all the time, and they do not care. Yet we care about them—are we more attached than they are? But there is one prerequisite: there must be no organic illness. |
| 学人：打坐，这方面业障多，不是这疼就是那痒。 | Student: When meditating, there are many karmic obstacles in this respect: if it is not pain here, it is itching there. |
| 齐老师：我总不愿意用"业障"这个词。为什么呢?是心有障，但总不理解为心障，他理解为以前做过什么什么事，外头的那个力量现在讨债来了。 | Teacher Qi: I have never liked using the term “karmic obstacles.” Why? There are obstructions in the mind, but people never understand them as mental obstructions. They interpret them as some external force coming to collect a debt for something they did in the past. |
| 这种理解不是不可以，初学的刚入门的可以，现在都已经修行了，还这样理解，碍事不碍事？这才是障碍呢！整天把业障挂在嘴上，它本身才是业障。这些病痛不是你能空掉的，它是本来空的。我说的意思，不是观空把病痛去掉，我说的是："把你想去掉的心空掉！" | This interpretation is not entirely unacceptable for beginners who have just entered the gate. But now that you are already practicing, is it not an obstruction to continue understanding it that way? That itself is the obstacle! If you constantly speak of karmic obstacles, that very habit is a karmic obstacle. You cannot empty away these pains and illnesses; they are empty from the outset. What I mean is not that you contemplate their emptiness in order to get rid of them. I mean: “Empty away the mind that wants to get rid of them!” |
| 学人：释迦牟尼佛，说他是大法王，也说他是大医王。这个大法王比较好理解，这个医王怎么…… | Student: Śākyamuni Buddha is called the Great Dharma King and also the Great King of Medicine. Great Dharma King is relatively easy to understand, but what does King of Medicine mean...? |
| 齐老师：大医王是这样，并不是指的治你身体的毛病，是指的治心病。治贪嗔痴慢疑的病，就是大医王。 | Teacher Qi: The Great King of Medicine does not mean healing your bodily ailments. It means healing the illnesses of the mind. To heal the illnesses of greed, anger, ignorance, pride, and doubt is to be the Great King of Medicine. |
| 现在好多人，都是发心为了身体健康就学佛。其实啊，我个人的看法我也直说了：为了身体健康，不能算错误，但你别跟解脱道放在一块儿啊。健康了又怎么样呢？健康了以后他就不死了？能多活几年？也不见得。人的寿命，跟他的身体健康不健康，可能不是正比。 | Nowadays, many people take up Buddhism out of a wish for physical health. Frankly, in my personal view, this is not wrong, but do not place it together with the path of liberation. What does good health amount to? Once healthy, will one not die? Can one live a few more years? Not necessarily. A person’s lifespan may not be directly proportional to whether their body is healthy. |
| 学人：师父，在我们修的这个法里边吧，介绍了哪个手印可以治身体的病。我们结这个手印，实际上就是佛菩萨的加持力。 | Student: Master, in the practice we cultivate, it is explained that certain mudrās can cure physical illnesses. When we form such a mudrā, it is actually the empowering force of the Buddhas and bodhisattvas. |
| 齐老师：你讲的完全有道理。但既然是这样，跟众生有关系吗？跟他有关系，它就会有千差万别的疗效。因为众生千差万别，疗效也不会完全相同。还跟那个病人有关系啊。有的病你用这个方法治，有的病你用这个方法治没辙。再好的办法哪能万能啊。 | Teacher Qi: What you say is entirely reasonable. But if that is so, does it have anything to do with sentient beings? Since it does, the therapeutic effects will vary in countless ways. Because sentient beings differ in countless ways, the effects cannot be exactly the same. It also depends on the patient. Some illnesses can be treated by this method; for others, this method is helpless. How could even the best method be universally effective? |
| 学人：业障病呢？ | Student: What about illnesses caused by karmic obstacles? |
| 齐老师：业障病也有能治的，也有不能治的，也不是全部都能治，全部不能治。我们现在一说身体不好了，都说业障。业障是障碍什么了？它障碍你成道，你比方身体病了，没办法打坐了，它障碍你成道嘛，这可以说是业障，不是障碍你身体健康。只要你成道，"朝闻道，夕死可矣"，什么身体不身体的！ | Teacher Qi: Some illnesses caused by karmic obstacles can be treated, and some cannot. It is neither the case that all can be treated nor that none can be treated. Nowadays, whenever someone is in poor health, they call it karmic obstacles. What does karma obstruct? It obstructs your realization of the Way. For example, if bodily illness leaves you unable to meditate, it obstructs your realization of the Way; that may be called a karmic obstacle. It does not mean an obstruction to bodily health. So long as you realize the Way, “If one hears the Way in the morning, one may die content in the evening.” What does the body matter? |
| 学人：老师，就是说的那个念佛的人切忌死气，修禅的人切忌不要飙气，学密的人切忌妖气，对这几个是怎么理解？ | Student: Teacher, it is said that those who practice Buddha-recitation must avoid deadness, those who practice Chan must avoid an overbearing energy, and those who study Esoteric Buddhism must avoid a demonic air. How should these be understood? |
| 齐老师：这是有可能的。它那个是纠偏用的，有可能产生另一个弊端，但是你可以防止它。比如，参禅是提起话头，我们的观照是放下，我们的观照和参禅正好相反。 | Teacher Qi: These are possible pitfalls. Such warnings are meant to correct deviations: a practice may produce another drawback, but you can prevent it. For example, investigating Chan involves taking up a huatou, whereas our contemplation consists in letting go. Our contemplation is exactly the opposite of Chan investigation. |
| 学人：什么意思？ | Student: What does that mean? |
| 齐老师：方法不同，但是目标是相同的。因为都归到明心见性、开悟这一块了。 | Teacher Qi: The methods differ, but the goal is the same, because they all return to realizing the mind, seeing one’s true nature, and awakening. |
| 学人：师父，座下的时候，不起妄念的时候，心一直这样空荡着，就可以了，是吧？ | Student: Master, when I am off the cushion and no deluded thoughts arise, if the mind simply remains empty like this, that is enough, is it not? |
| 齐老师：要是不起妄念，你管它干什么呀！ | Teacher Qi: If no deluded thoughts arise, why concern yourself with it? |
| 学人：一开始起妄念。 | Student: Deluded thoughts start arising. |
| 齐老师：一念接一念，并且他不知道，是要警觉，要发现，不能跟着它跑。 | Teacher Qi: One thought follows another, and one does not even know it. You must be alert and notice them; you must not run along with them. |
| 学人：现在能发觉了，哎呀…… | Student: Now I can notice them—ah... |
| 齐老师：发觉了，断它！断！断！断！ | Teacher Qi: Once you notice them, cut them off! Cut them off! Cut them off! Cut them off! |
| 学人：呸。 | Student: Pah! |
| 齐老师：这也是办法，念佛也是办法，追顶念也是办法……你无论用啥方法，只要你断了不跟它跑就可以了。这才第一步啊。 | Teacher Qi: That too is a method. Buddha-recitation is also a method; rapid successive recitation is also a method... Whatever method you use, so long as you cut them off and do not run along with them, that is enough. But that is only the first step. |
| 你知道么，一旦你已经到体验了，就是说认灵知不认妄念，还要啥去对治妄念干什么呀。一激灵，就回到灵知那儿了呀。这还不到底呢！ | Do you understand? Once you have reached direct experience—when you recognize numinous knowing and do not recognize deluded thoughts—why would you still need to counteract deluded thoughts? The moment you become alert, you return to numinous knowing. Yet this is still not the end! |
| 妄念不为害了，它起了就是没起，妄想纷飞就是没起念！--不到这儿不算究竟！但你不能说那就是凡夫的妄想纷飞，你还不能说是，你还不能说不是。 | When deluded thoughts no longer do harm, their arising is equivalent to not arising; when vain thoughts fly about in profusion, it is equivalent to no thought arising at all! Until one reaches this point, it is not ultimate. But you cannot say that this is just the profusion of vain thoughts of an ordinary person. You still cannot say it is, nor can you say it is not. |
| 学人：那多少个人可以这样继续的？ | Student: Then how many people can continue in this way? |
| 齐老师：现在都能！都是不肯。不肯，只好给你个方便。你说我那个总是认妄念不认灵知，那只好做第一步：不要跟妄念跑。 | Teacher Qi: Now everyone can! They are simply unwilling. Since they are unwilling, one can only give them an expedient. If you say, “I always recognize deluded thoughts and do not recognize numinous knowing,” then you can only begin with the first step: do not run along with deluded thoughts. |
| 不要跟妄想跑，那是小孩科呀。那还用跟它跑呀？跑什么啊？它都不是东西，我跟它干啥！一机灵，灵知现前了。 | Not running along with vain thoughts is child’s play. Why would you run along with them? Run after what? They are not even things—why should I follow them? The moment you become alert, numinous knowing appears before you. |
| 妄想它就是乱，它有什么危害啊？它有就是没有！它能害着你啊？谁去断它干啥呀！这不就这意思嘛，断它不多事吗！断它干啥？它根本就作不了主！以前它老是作主，老是跟它跑，现在它跑它的，它总作不了主。到这儿，还没有到最后。 | Vain thoughts are simply disorder. What harm can they do? Their being there is the same as not being there. Can they harm you? Why cut them off? Is not that the meaning? Is it not superfluous to cut them off? Why cut them off? They fundamentally cannot take charge. Formerly, they always took charge, and you always ran along with them. Now they may run as they please, but they can no longer take charge. Even here, one has not yet reached the final point. |
| 哎呀，有些是意在言外的，要是说，有可能会误解，说多了！所以最后只能这么说："本来是佛，观什么照！"这才是真观照。前头什么"不随念转不随境迁"呀，什么"凛然一觉朗然现前"啊，那些都是方便说，全都是方便说。 | Ah, some things lie beyond the words. If they are spoken of, they may be misunderstood; too much has already been said! Therefore, in the end one can only say: “Originally you are Buddha—what contemplation is there to practice?” This is true contemplation. Earlier sayings such as “do not turn with thoughts or be moved by circumstances,” or “with a solemn awakening, lucid awareness appears before you,” are all expedient teachings—entirely expedient teachings. |
| 学人：但我们可以借用一下。 | Student: But we can still make use of them. |
| 齐老师：那你没法不那样说啊，他不到那儿。实际上越是究竟越是容易！他都是不肯，不肯。 | Teacher Qi: There is no way not to speak that way, because people have not reached that point. In fact, the more ultimate it is, the easier it is! They are simply unwilling, unwilling. |
| 学人：有时候断了，那个"本来是佛"…… | Student: Sometimes, after cutting them off, that “originally you are Buddha”... |
| 齐老师：什么本来佛不本来佛的！那话是烘托啊，不能记那个词呀。一记那个词，它醍醐反成毒药！了义不能建立、了义不能诽谤，它是意在言外。所以有时候就教外别传，不说话了，拈花一笑就传给你佛的心印了。 | Teacher Qi: What “originally Buddha” or “not originally Buddha”? Those words are only for emphasis; you must not retain the phrase itself. Once you retain that phrase, clarified butter turns instead into poison! Ultimate meaning cannot be established, nor can ultimate meaning be disparaged; its meaning lies beyond the words. Thus there are times when there is a special transmission outside the teachings: no words are spoken, and with the holding up of a flower and a smile, the Buddha’s mind-seal is transmitted to you. |
| 在这儿讲观照多难哪，说不清楚。在石家庄讲观照，一句话也就说完了，人人都懂：什么叫观照？生活禅就是观照！就这么简单，他们懂生活禅呐。 | It is so difficult to explain contemplation here; it cannot be made clear. When I spoke of contemplation in Shijiazhuang, it could be explained in one sentence, and everyone understood: What is contemplation? Living Chan is contemplation! It is that simple; they understood Living Chan. |
| 学人：唉对呀，生活禅就是观照。 | Student: Ah, yes—Living Chan is contemplation. |
| 齐老师：生活禅就是观照。净慧法师倡导生活禅呐，确实是个新思路。为什么呢？要是还是老思路参话头，现代人都提不起疑情了，你让他放下还不好办呢，你让他提起疑情更难。 | Teacher Qi: Living Chan is contemplation. Dharma Master Jinghui advocated Living Chan; it truly is a new approach. Why? If one still follows the old approach of investigating a huatou, modern people cannot arouse a sense of doubt. Getting them to let go is not easy, but getting them to arouse a sense of doubt is even harder. |
| 我在另一个地方讲观照，也很容易，山东曲阜，有个国学班要灌顶，讲观照：什么叫观照？八个字就是观照：毋意、毋必、毋固、毋我。他们都懂。 | Elsewhere, I also explained contemplation very easily. In Qufu, Shandong, there was a class in traditional Chinese learning that was to receive empowerment. I explained contemplation: What is contemplation? Eight characters express it: no preconceived ideas, no arbitrary insistence, no rigidity, no self. They all understood. |
| 学人：师父，观照是不是好像体会它？ | Student: Master, is contemplation something like directly experiencing it? |
| 齐老师：这个思路是把观照当作个事，整天提起这个事来。其实这是一个误解，观照是没事。什么时候发现有事，什么时候观照。但是有事也发现不了，跟着妄想跑了也不知道，这需要提起警觉。不是提起警觉看看有没有观照，是发现跟着跑了，停！断！不能跟它跑！这就是观照。 | Teacher Qi: This way of thinking treats contemplation as a thing, something to be brought up all day long. Actually, that is a misunderstanding. Contemplation is when there is no thing. Whenever you discover that something is going on, that is when you contemplate. But if something is going on and you do not even notice it—if you are carried away by deluded thoughts without knowing it—you need to arouse vigilance. It is not that you arouse vigilance to see whether there is contemplation. Rather, when you discover that you have been carried away, stop! Cut it off! Do not follow it! That is contemplation. |
| 学人：老师，打坐的时候，是不是把入定作为好坏的标准？ | Student: Teacher, when meditating, should entering samādhi be taken as the criterion of good or bad practice? |
| 齐老师：你一当标准，话就得说反。你要不当标准，打坐入定当然是好事。当标准，那么就说：哪一座你最艰难，根本不可能入定，硬憋下来的，你没间断，那一座才最好！这个说法就是对治你的思想--追求入定。那一座质量最高！为什么呢？你没那一座你就间断了！ | Teacher Qi: Once you make it a criterion, the matter has to be put the other way around. If you do not make it a criterion, then of course entering samādhi during meditation is a good thing. But if you make it a criterion, then I would say this: the session that was most difficult for you, in which it was simply impossible to enter samādhi, yet you stubbornly endured it to the end without interruption—that session was the best! This is said to counter your thought of pursuing samādhi. That session had the highest quality! Why? Because without that session, you would have interrupted your practice! |
| 学人：打坐当中老不入定的话，有可能见性吗？ | Student: If one repeatedly fails to enter samādhi during meditation, is it still possible to see one’s true nature? |
| 齐老师：你考虑定的问题，把见性扔一边。考虑见性的时候，把定扔一边。 | Teacher Qi: When you are concerned with samādhi, you set seeing your true nature aside. When you are concerned with seeing your true nature, set samādhi aside. |
| 学人：不打坐也能见性？ | Student: Can one see one’s true nature without meditating? |
| 齐老师：当然能。但是现在这样的人很少。目前还是坚持完你的千座，就有希望。 | Teacher Qi: Of course. But such people are very rare nowadays. For now, continue until you have completed your thousand sessions, and there is hope. |
| 学人：我现在就是觉得没有信心，怎么打坐越来越差呢？ | Student: Right now, I feel I have no confidence. Why is my meditation getting worse and worse? |
| 齐老师：什么叫差？ 什么叫好？ | Teacher Qi: What do you mean by worse? What do you mean by better? |
| 学人：有时候坐不住了。 | Student: Sometimes I simply cannot stay seated. |
| 齐老师：我刚才说他--打坐地方都没条件，但是它不间断，我认为这一座质量最高，就是纠正这个偏的啊！ | Teacher Qi: As I was just saying about him—he did not even have suitable conditions for meditation, yet he did not interrupt his practice. I consider that session to have been of the highest quality. That is precisely to correct this skewed view! |
| 学人：我觉得这是鼓励人的话。 | Student: I feel that is merely an encouraging remark. |
| 齐老师：这是鼓励的话。但入定就能成佛吗？那这块石头早成佛了。成佛跟你入定没直接关联。 | Teacher Qi: It is encouraging. But can entering samādhi make one a Buddha? If so, this stone would already have become a Buddha. Becoming a Buddha has no direct connection with your entering samādhi. |
| 学人：有那么一部分人，不依靠这个定力也能见性，您是说…… | Student: There are some people who can see their true nature without relying on this power of samādhi—you mean... |
| 齐老师：在今天这个打七语言环境下，我要还说不依靠定力就能见性，我这个话就容易误解了。但是我也没说非依赖它，才能见性。 | Teacher Qi: In the present linguistic setting of this seven-day retreat, if I were still to say that one can see one’s true nature without relying on the power of samādhi, my words could easily be misunderstood. But neither have I said that one must rely on it in order to see one’s true nature. |
| 学人：但是你见性那一瞬间，是不是一定在定中？ | Student: But at the very moment you see your true nature, must you necessarily be in samādhi? |
| 齐老师：没有什么定与不定。有定与不定，它就根本不相干。还在那儿有出有入的定力啊？ | Teacher Qi: There is no such thing as samādhi or non-samādhi. If there are samādhi and non-samādhi, then they have nothing whatever to do with it. Are you still talking about a power of samādhi that one enters and exits? |
| 学人：有这么一种人，好比说这个人慧根比较好一些，但是定力差一些。 | Student: There are people, for example, who have relatively good wisdom faculties but relatively weak powers of samādhi. |
| 齐老师：那是说有出有入的定。 | Teacher Qi: That is speaking of samādhi that one enters and exits. |
| 定力强、慧力差的人，他容易认光影就是境界。他把那光明境界认为是佛性，这是他的岔路。 | A person with strong power of samādhi but weak wisdom is liable to mistake lights and shadows for realizational experiences. They take those luminous experiences to be buddha-nature. That is where they go astray. |
| 慧力强、定力差的人，他容易落到概念里，你比如说：见性就是不见性，无见之见才是真见，也没有悟也没有不悟……这一套理论他弄得特熟，你说到别的，他都能忍，你说他不见性，那立即就恼了。这是落概念的人，你就不能在概念上说他不是。 | A person with strong wisdom but weak power of samādhi is liable to fall into concepts. For example: “Seeing one’s true nature is not seeing one’s true nature; seeing without seeing is true seeing; there is neither awakening nor non-awakening...” They become extremely familiar with this whole set of theories. You can say anything else to them and they can bear it, but if you say they have not seen their true nature, they immediately become angry. Such people have fallen into concepts, so you cannot tell them, on the level of concepts, that they are wrong. |
| 学人：我们现在每个人和释迦牟尼佛，应该说也是都一样的，没有什么差别的…… | Student: Each of us now, and Śākyamuni Buddha, should be said to be the same; there is no difference at all... |
| 齐老师：你这个"没差别"，我给你加个注解：差别就是没差别！什么是无差别啊？千差万别，这正是无差别！ | Teacher Qi: To your “no difference,” let me add an annotation: difference itself is no difference! What is nondifference? The myriad differences are precisely nondifference! |
| 学人：这个三藏十二部，佛说的经典，哪些是方便说，哪些是究竟说？ | Student: Among the Tripiṭaka and the twelve divisions of scripture, among the sūtras spoken by the Buddha, which are expedient teachings and which are ultimate teachings? |
| 齐老师：要深入经藏。你可以研究天台教义化法四教、化仪四教、五时说法和华严宗的小、始、终、顿、圆。 | Teacher Qi: You must delve deeply into the scriptural treasury. You may study the Tiantai doctrinal classifications of the Four Teachings of Method and the Four Teachings of Ritual, the Buddha’s teachings in Five Periods, and the Huayan classifications of the Lesser, Initial, Final, Sudden, and Perfect teachings. |
| 学人：像《法华经》、《金刚经》、《地藏经》、《阿弥陀经》，哪一些是究竟说？ | Student: Such sūtras as the Lotus Sūtra, the Diamond Sūtra, the Kṣitigarbha Sūtra, and the Amitābha Sūtra—which of them are ultimate teachings? |
| 齐老师：我认为全是圆教。你看你要从哪个角度看。 | Teacher Qi: I think they are all Perfect Teachings. It depends on the perspective from which you view them. |
| 学人：《阿弥陀经》也是？ | Student: The Amitābha Sūtra as well? |
| 齐老师：也究竟！为什么彼诸佛等亦称赞释迦牟尼佛，为诸众生说是一切世间难信之法啊？佛说法的地方是不是净土？佛不在净土说法啊？那我们这不也是净土吗？我们这也是净土，生西干什么啊？你看看，这是埋伏着，不跟你明说。你要知道，上师讲过这话：讲经啊，最难讲的就是《阿弥陀经》。因为这里头的意蕴，开发不出来。 | Teacher Qi: It too is ultimate! Why do all those Buddhas praise Śākyamuni Buddha for teaching sentient beings this Dharma that is difficult for the whole world to believe? Is not the place where the Buddha teaches the Dharma a Pure Land? Does the Buddha not teach the Dharma in a Pure Land? Then is this place not also a Pure Land? This too is a Pure Land, so why seek rebirth in the West? Look: this is implied, not plainly stated to you. You should know that the master once said: of all sūtras, the most difficult to explain is the Amitābha Sūtra, because its inner meaning cannot be brought out. |
| 学人：师父，这么说起来，《地藏经》说的地狱，是不是也是方便说？ | Student: Master, in that case, are the hells described in the Kṣitigarbha Sūtra also expedient teachings? |
| 齐老师：那要看你怎么讲。 | Teacher Qi: That depends on how you explain them. |
| 学人：地狱本空啊。 | Student: Hell is originally empty. |
| 齐老师：你的理解那是方便说，根本就没地狱这回事，是这个意思吗？ | Teacher Qi: In your understanding, that is an expedient teaching: there is fundamentally no such thing as hell—is that what you mean? |
| 学人：对大修行人来说，哪有什么地狱之分净土之分，心净国土净是吧，地狱也是净土。 | Student: For great practitioners, what distinction is there between hell and the Pure Land? When the mind is pure, the land is pure, is that not so? Hell too is a Pure Land. |
| 齐老师：那我问你了：眼前的世界，有没有？ | Teacher Qi: Then let me ask you: does the world before your eyes exist or not? |
| 学人：眼前的世界，说有也有，说无也无。 | Student: As for the world before our eyes, one can say it exists, and one can say it does not exist. |
| 齐老师：那你为什么不把地狱也说成这样呢？你说眼前的世界，连说空带说有，说到地狱光说空不说有，这意思能行吗！ | Teacher Qi: Then why do you not speak of hell in the same way? When you speak of the world before your eyes, you speak both of emptiness and of existence. But when you speak of hell, you speak only of emptiness and not of existence. Can that make sense? |
| 学人：修净土法门，临命终念《中有成就秘笈》可以吗？ | Student: For someone practicing the Pure Land dharma gate, is it acceptable to recite the Secret Manual of Attainment in the Intermediate State at the time of death? |
| 齐老师：一生修净土，直接生西才是成就，根本不经历中有身。临终还经历中有，多可惜啊！多悲哀啊！ | Teacher Qi: If one practices the Pure Land throughout one’s life, attainment means being directly reborn in the West, without undergoing the intermediate-state body at all. How regrettable! How sad it would be to undergo the intermediate state at death! |
| 学人：可是上不去啊。 | Student: But one cannot make it up there. |
| 齐老师：为什么会上不去呢？ | Teacher Qi: Why can one not make it up there? |
| 学人：没实修。 | Student: Because there has been no actual cultivation. |
| 齐老师：真修净土，怎么修不去呢？万修万人去，这话一点不错。如果是心里打妄想，嘴上念佛，手呼啦呼啦地拨念珠，并不是一个念珠一个佛号，那他当然就去不了。真修行人都是密修。 | Teacher Qi: If one truly practices the Pure Land, how could one fail to get there? “Of ten thousand practitioners, ten thousand go”—that saying is entirely correct. But if one entertains deluded thoughts inwardly, recites the Buddha’s name with one’s mouth, and rapidly fingers the prayer beads—without each bead corresponding to one recitation of the Buddha’s name—then of course one cannot get there. True practitioners all cultivate in secret. |
| 有个人念佛很洪亮，邻居都听得清楚，已经八十多岁的这个老人家，是秘密修的。他是一点都不累，念惯了。刚好这邻家来了个亲戚，是个气功师，一听这声音就是气感。气功师讲气感嘛，想拜他为师。 | There was an elderly man in his eighties who recited the Buddha’s name so loudly that his neighbors could hear him clearly. Yet he cultivated in secret. He did not tire at all, because he was accustomed to reciting. As it happened, a relative of a neighbor came to visit; he was a qigong practitioner. On hearing the sound, he recognized it as a sensation of qi. Qigong practitioners talk about sensations of qi, you see, so he wanted to take the old man as his teacher. |
| "跟我学啥呀？" | "What would you learn from me?" |
| "学气功。" | "Qigong." |
| "我只会念佛，别的我啥也不知道。" | "I only know how to recite the Buddha’s name. I do not know anything else." |
| 实际老人已经告诉他方法了，念佛就是方法，他不理解，他认为有啥玄妙呢，他不那样理解。他最后觉得没希望了："哎呀，看来你老人家心里只有佛了。" | In fact, the old man had already told him the method: reciting the Buddha’s name was the method. But he did not understand. He thought there must be something mysterious about it; he did not understand it that way. In the end, feeling there was no hope, he said: "Ah, it seems that there is only Buddha in your heart, old sir." |
| 你知道老人怎么说的？"无佛无法！"，这么说的。 | Do you know how the old man replied? "No Buddha, no dharma!" That is what he said. |
| 怎么样？修净土念佛，只要是老实念也到这个境界，也一样的，都能到究竟义，绝对生西。象这老人，能到这境界不生西，佛法还有灵验吗？这还了得！光念佛都能到这境界。都不肯老实，所以弄弄弄，一生不能成就。本来一生都能成就，一个不剩的，任何法门都能成就，都不肯干！ | What do you think? In Pure Land practice, through Buddha-recitation, as long as one recites honestly, one can also reach this state. It is the same: one can reach the ultimate meaning and certainly be reborn in the West. If a person like this old man could reach such a state and still not be reborn in the West, would the Buddhadharma have any efficacy left? That would be preposterous! Simply reciting the Buddha’s name can bring one to this state. People are unwilling to do it honestly, so they fiddle around and cannot attain realization in a lifetime. Originally, everyone could attain realization in one lifetime, without a single exception; any dharma gate can lead to attainment. But they are unwilling to do the work! |
| 学人：老师，我打坐2点钟的时候，就是什么也没有，明亮，心里那个痛快轻松呀……这就叫心花怒放？这是我做的梦是妄想？ | Student: Teacher, at two o’clock while meditating, there was simply nothing—only brightness. My heart felt so joyful and light... Is this what is called the heart blooming with joy? Was it a dream, or was it deluded thought? |
| 齐老师：我先不说话，我听听大家的意见。 | Teacher Qi: I will not speak first. Let me hear everyone’s opinions. |
| 学人：自性光明。 | Student: The luminosity of intrinsic nature. |
| 齐老师：这是一个意见。 | Teacher Qi: That is one opinion. |
| 学人：妄想。 | Student: Deluded thought. |
| 齐老师：这是另一个意见。 | Teacher Qi: That is another opinion. |
| 学人：执着那个心花怒放。 | Student: Clinging to that joyful blooming of the heart. |
| 齐老师：这又是一个，跟那个妄想的意见有点接近。 | Teacher Qi: That is yet another opinion, somewhat close to the opinion that it is deluded thought. |
| 学人：心花怒放了又是什么样呢？ | Student: And what would it be like if the heart truly bloomed with joy? |
| 齐老师：嗯。还有没有别的意见了？ | Teacher Qi: Hmm. Does anyone have any other opinion? |
| 学人：师父，您上次说看到了，不执着。 | Student: Master, last time you said that when one sees something, one should not cling to it. |
| 齐老师：这一个心胸宽阔、光明绽放本身，它不是妄想，但你对待它的态度是妄想，这是《楞严经》的意思。"不作圣心"，就是对待它的态度不执着。"名善境界"，那是好境界。 | Teacher Qi: This expansiveness of heart and blossoming of luminosity is not itself deluded thought. But your attitude toward it is deluded thought. That is the meaning of the Śūraṅgama Sūtra. “Do not form a sacred view” means not clinging to it in your attitude toward it. “It is called a good state”—it is a good experience. |
| "若作圣解"，你要那样去理解，我见性了，我开悟了，"即受群邪"，这就是妄想。不是那个境界是妄想，是你对这个境界的态度和执着是妄想，所以两个意见都正确。 | “If one forms a holy interpretation”: if you understand it that way—“I have seen my true nature; I have awakened”—then “one immediately falls prey to all kinds of deviant influences.” That is deluded thinking. It is not that the state itself is deluded thinking; rather, your attitude toward and attachment to that state are deluded thinking. Therefore, both views are correct. |
| 学人：不说不是妄想，你这一说出来就是。 | Student: If you do not speak of it, it is not deluded thinking; once you speak it, it is. |
| 齐老师：这个事，它就是这样的，一卖弄就出问题。 | Teacher Qi: That is just how it is: the moment you show it off, problems arise. |
| 我们总是把老人说的，摘出来个别词语。老人的《略论明心见性》讲见性讲了五条，一二三四五，谁还记得？老人提到过"爆炸"，是提到过，光说爆炸啦？说爆炸的时候多呀，说别的事情少。 | We always extract isolated words and phrases from what the Master said. In the Master’s Brief Discussion of Realizing the Mind and Seeing One’s True Nature, he set out five points about seeing one’s true nature—one, two, three, four, five. Who still remembers them? The Master did mention “explosion,” yes, but did he speak only of explosion? He spoke of explosion many times; did he speak less about other matters? |
| 说完爆炸，后边紧接着说"不可得"！"不可得"你没看见，你能怪他老人家吗？有可能就是爆炸那事，他跟你提一提，你当成终点了，重点说的五条你没印象，你看看，这个事你能怪老人家没说吗？ | Immediately after speaking of explosion, he went on to say, “unobtainable”! You did not notice “unobtainable”—can you blame the Master for that? Perhaps he merely mentioned that matter of explosion to you, but you took it as the endpoint. You have no impression of the five points that were the main emphasis. Look at this: can you say that the Master did not explain it? |
| 学人：齐老师，我喜欢打完坐再躺下来睡一会儿，在家曾经前后两次机会，一躺下来头"轰"的一声，两次都这样。 | Student: Teacher Qi, after meditation I like to lie down and sleep for a while. At home, on two separate occasions, as soon as I lay down there was a “boom” in my head. It happened both times. |
| 齐老师：鹞子早过新罗。 | Teacher Qi: The hawk has long since flown past Silla. |
| 学人：什么个意思？ | Student: What does that mean? |
| 齐老师：就是说那鸟早飞朝鲜去了，你现在还能看见它影呢？现在说它干什么呀，就这意思。早错过了，还说呀。 | Teacher Qi: It means that the bird has already flown off to Korea. Can you still see its shadow now? What is the point of talking about it now? That is what it means. It was missed long ago, yet you are still talking about it. |
| 学人：要是以后，再遇到这种情况，那怎么办？ | Student: If I encounter this situation again in the future, what should I do? |
| 齐老师：要是有这个思路的话，仍是错的。 | Teacher Qi: If you have that line of thought, it is still mistaken. |
| 学人：但是那个时候说去认取它，一不认取，照样好象对面来了个火车，过去了，你没见着还是没见着。 | Student: But at that time you said to recognize it. If you do not recognize it, then it is as though a train came straight at you and passed by; if you did not see it, then you still did not see it. |
| 齐老师：你说一个认取它，我就知道，你跟我说的认取不一样啊。你说的"认取"，它是个东西：我是主，它是宾，你这个"我见到的佛性"，那个佛性成宾了呀。 | Teacher Qi: The moment you say “recognize it,” I know that the recognizing you mean is not what I mean. The “recognizing” you speak of treats it as an object: “I” am the subject, and it is the object. The “Buddha-nature that I have seen” has become an object. |
| 我说的认取，它是主！要是立场一变的话，你看看是不是脱胎换骨，本质的变化？这样来的猛，不就是像虚空粉碎大地平沉一样吗？ | The recognizing I speak of is the subject! If one’s standpoint changes, look—is that not a complete transformation, a change in one’s very essence? When it comes so forcefully, is it not like empty space shattering and the great earth sinking away? |
| 学人：对。 | Student: Yes. |
| 齐老师：哎呀！一下子明白，来得猛了不像爆炸嘛。哪有什么认取那个境界？要说一定有个爆炸的境界，你拿个炮杖给我放放，管用啊？ | Teacher Qi: Ah! When one understands all at once, it comes forcefully—does it not seem like an explosion? What is there to recognize as some particular state? If you insist that there must be a state of explosion, then set off a firecracker for me—would that do any good? |
| 学人：它不需要你的认取。 | Student: It does not require your recognition. |
| 齐老师：你不是认宾语了嘛，我说的那不是认宾语，我这儿是主语没了，说认取说不认取都成了戏论。一下子立场变了，认取不认取，由不得你非认取不行。再一个，认取又有什么可得的？你捞不住捞什么！你捞它捞得住啊？赶它赶得走啊？这起个假名叫开悟见性。 | Teacher Qi: But are you not recognizing an object? What I mean is not recognizing an object. Here, the subject is gone; to speak of recognition or non-recognition is all idle speculation. Once the standpoint changes all at once, whether one recognizes it or not is no longer up to you—you cannot help but recognize it. Moreover, what could be obtained through recognition? If you cannot grasp it, what are you trying to grasp? Can you grasp it? Can you drive it away? We provisionally give this the name “awakening and seeing one’s true nature.” |
| 学人：老人在那个书讲过，当时初祖问他们师兄：问一个一千七百个公案，一串串起来如何？一个师兄答了"苦"，然后初祖问"谁苦"，老人捂着耳朵就跑出去了。这一块儿当时一直不太明白，我今天想：捂着耳朵，就是说佛的意思我不喜闻；跑出去，表示有佛处急走过…… | Student: The Master discussed this in that book. At the time, the First Patriarch asked their senior fellow disciple, “If one were to string together all seventeen hundred koans, what would it be like?” One fellow disciple answered, “Suffering.” Then the First Patriarch asked, “Who suffers?” The Master covered his ears and ran out. I had never really understood this passage. Today I thought: covering his ears means, “I do not delight in hearing the Buddha’s meaning”; running out expresses the saying, “Where there is a Buddha, hurry past”... |
| 齐老师：你讲的有道理。但那是讲道理，你还不如现在就捂着耳朵出去呢！ | Teacher Qi: What you say makes sense. But that is merely explaining it in words. You would do better to cover your ears and walk out right now! |
| 学人：老师，拿这个茶杯，问您："这是什么？" | Student: Teacher, taking this teacup, I ask you: “What is this?” |
| 齐老师：这一问是验主问--我检验检验你这个说法人。对这一类问法，直接的答语不大中听： "我不如你！" | Teacher Qi: This question is a test of the host—you are testing me as a Dharma teacher. The most direct answer to this kind of question may not be very pleasing to hear: “I am not as good as you!” |
| 齐老师：到最后就是大白话：别认为见性很高深，它是平常事，是本分事，是修行人应该的！它并不高，是刚开始，而不是登了个啥高枝、弄了个别人不知道的玄妙境界、爬上了一个别人上不去的山头，不是那回事！这是修行人各人的本分，只是他不肯，越不肯越弄得好像是神秘莫测。 | Teacher Qi: In the end, it is simply plain talk: do not think that seeing one’s true nature is something lofty and profound. It is an ordinary matter; it is one’s proper duty; it is what a practitioner ought to do. It is not lofty—it is only the beginning. It is not like climbing some high branch, attaining some mysterious state that others do not know, or scaling a mountain that others cannot climb. It is not like that at all! This is each practitioner’s proper duty. It is only because they are unwilling that it comes to seem increasingly mysterious and unfathomable. |
| 见性不是奇特，它是本分，它不是让你显摆显摆，拿出来卖弄卖弄。 | Seeing one’s true nature is not something extraordinary. It is one’s proper duty; it is not something for you to parade about or show off. |
| 用圭峰宗密大师的几句话作解七："以灵知为自心，勿认妄念。 | To conclude this seven-day retreat, let us use a few words from Master Guifeng Zongmi: “Take numinous knowing as your own mind; do not mistake deluded thoughts for it.” |
| 妄念若起，都不随之，即临命终时，自然业不能系，虽有中阴，所向自由，天上人间，随意寄托……若微细流注，一切寂灭，唯圆觉大智朗然独存，即能随机应现千百亿化身，度有缘众生，名之为佛。"咱们呢，前头这一句，最低的标准，谁都能达到，你就是不打七天坐也能达到，何况你又在这打了七天坐呢！ | “If deluded thoughts arise, do not follow them. Then, when the time of death comes, karma will naturally be unable to bind you. Though there is an intermediate state, you will be free in the direction you take, able to entrust yourself as you wish among devas or human beings... If the subtle continuous stream is utterly stilled, and only the great wisdom of perfect enlightenment remains, bright and lucid in solitary presence, then one can manifest countless transformation bodies in response to circumstances and liberate sentient beings with whom one has affinities. This is called Buddha.” As for us, the first sentence alone—the most basic standard—is something everyone can attain. You can attain it even without sitting in meditation for seven days, much less when you have sat here for seven days! |
| 好了，结束吧。 | All right, let us conclude. |
